July
22, 1994 "Maroc
Hebdo International"
, a Moroccan weekly (close to the regime), published an
interview, here translated into English. September 1, 1994 the
article was partly republished in the French periodical
"Courrier
International".
Ahmed
Rami
interviewed
by Maroc
Hebdo International
´s
Mustapha
Tossa
Ahmed Rami was born in 1946 in Tafraout, Morocco. He was
educated at a senior high school in Tiznit in southern
Morocco. From 1963 to 1966 he was a teacher at secondary
grammar schools in Casablanca. In 1966 he was admitted to
the armed forces staff college in Meknès and two
years later appointed a lieutenant at the armoured forces in
Rabat.
He took part in two attempted coups d'état, the one
at Skhirat in 1971 and the one starting with an attack on
the royal aeroplane in 1972. After disappearing for a year
he reached Sweden, where he got a place of refuge and
acquired Swedish citizenship. After being an active member
of the UNFP (Union Nationale des Forces Populaires) he
presents himself today as a militant Islamist, but as one
who "bypasses the debate on the folklore and the rites".
Being a self-taught person he has published numerous works
in Swedish, the language of his new motherland, on the
Palestinian question, the state of Israel and the conflicts
between Muslims and Jews. Twenty years have changed Ahmed
Rami. Today he believes in a peaceful political dialogue,
provided that "all liberties are guaranteed in the bosom
of a state governed by law".
The royal statement of July 8,
1994
(in which political refugees are invited to return)
do you feel it concerns you?
Ahmed Rami: I have a habit of only
believing in deeds, not in words. If a statement is not
followed by concrete action, it becomes meaningless. Of
course I feel concerned about what is happening in my
country. It might added that the Moroccan society is now
passing through a decisive stage of its history. As to my
personal situation, I am not an ordinary political refugee.
I have directly or indirectly participated in two attempted
coups d'état during the seventies (the attack on the
royal palace in Skhirat July 10, 1971 and the attack on the
aeroplane of Hassan II August 16, 1972), after being a
militant of the UNFP. My case can only be treated at the
highest level of military authority.
Your return to Morocco, is it imaginable
under present conditions, and how?
Ahmed Rami: You must know that I do
not make an imperative necessity of my return to Morocco. Of
course it is my most ardent wish to be able to retrieve my
people, particularly my mother and my brother, who
fortunately have never been worried. Nor has my father, who
incidentally had a quiet death in his home in Morocco two
years ago. Because of my exile I was not able to see him a
last time."
Are you determined to get back to your
country?
Ahmed Rami: If you can guarantee my
security and my freedom to express my opinions, I would take
the first plane .
You know, every exile is a
suffering, but the suffering is less harsh, when the exiled
is fighting for the realization of his ideals and
convictions.
In other words, your return to Morocco
still remains hypothetical?
Ahmed Rami: I repeat that I am not
an ordinary political refugee, my case can only be treated
at the highest level of military authority, meaning by the
head of the State. My dream, however, is to be able to
return - to a country ruled according to the principles of
freedom and justice. If those in responsible positions so
wish, Morocco could become a model for a mild and peaceful
transition to democracy for the whole Arabic-Islamic
community in the world.
The coups d'état are worse alternatives
for a country. Today there is no sense in being grieved
about what happened, it belongs to the past. But the
conditions of oppression and corruption at that time were
such that a coup d'état was the only way of
effectively expressing dissatisfaction.
At that time
, I was only 25 years old, thus
young, impatient, dynamic and ardent. Like most youngsters
of my generation I wanted to change the world, but how? Some
people have tried to do it by way of ideological
discussions, others, like me, by means of action. Don't
forget that I was a part of the army, where one is more used
to acting than to talking.
Then you did express yourselves by means
of arms, was that a good solution?
Ahmed Rami: It was the worst
solution. It is a sign of weakness on the part of our
society, if there has been need for resorting to violence.
But all this is history now. Don't force me to stir the past
we have behind us. Now Islam represents to me a new moral
engagement.
But these views, couldn't you always
express them as a member of a political party in
Morocco?
Ahmed Rami: The political parties in
Morocco are hardly representative. There is a real rupture
between these organizations and the Moroccan people.
Besides, in Morocco one is not yet allowed to found The
Party We like. This is not something I have fabricated but a
real fact.
The problem has not so much to do with the
form of the regime as with its nature and real
intentions. The current political parties just exist for
form's sake and constitute integral parts of the regime,
which has produced them for the purpose of hiding its real
nature. This regime - like all other Arabian regimes these
days - has no legitimacy. That is the essential problem.
Give us freedom of opinion, expression and organization
(even for Islamists!), give us an authentic political
pluralism, give us a real alternation - of any form - and
call it whatever you like! And We'll find a proper Arabic
word for it! We must define democracy as a method, a set of
rules for the political game, rather than as a certain
ideological content (Islam is our only ideology). Democracy
is neutral method
as mathematics and necessary
for the good functioning of all human societies.
You are a political refugee in Sweden.
Will you tell us about your activities in that country?
Ahmed Rami: As an Islamist
I must think globally and act locally. When I arrived in
Sweden, I had soon noticed that our Moslem identity was
always scoffed at. So I created "Radio Islam". I can tell
you that in this radio I have never blackened my country,
because I think we should not wash our dirty linen
internationaly in public. The themes dealt with in our radio
are among other things tha Palestinian problem, the Gulf war
and the situation of Moslems all over the world.
As to the Palestinian problem I was drawn into
a conflict with the Zionist lobby in Sweden and all over the
world, and I have written some books in Swedish about it.
The Jewish lobby managed to get me imprisoned for six months
for "lack of respect for the Jewish people". This is in
effect a combat with unequal weapons.
You are known for maintaining privileged
relations with the Iranian regime...
Ahmed Rami: Quite right, at the end
of my lawsuit, which attracted an important attention in the
media, I was invited by the Iranians to go to Teheran. My
cause was discussed at the highest level of the Islamic
republic, and the parliament discussed the details of my
sentence.
Has Iran financed your activities in
Sweden?
Ahmed Rami: If I had ever
received the smallest sum from the Iranians, believe me, the
Jewish lobby in Sweden would not have hesitated to cry it
from the house-tops. I have never received any donation from
whoever. Radio Islam is financed by its listeners. My books
have been printed by benevolent and wellknown Swedes. I have
chosen this road so as not to be dependent on anyone and
thus maintain my freedom of expression and criticism and my
dignity as a free Moslem.
Do you keep up relations with Moroccan
Islamists?
Ahmed Rami: I keep up
relations with some of them, but I don't belong to any
movement.
What keeps you from belonging to one
Islamic movement or the other?
Ahmed Rami: My contact
with them allows me to stay and listen to their thoughts. An
Islamic revolution, enlightened and radical, is the only
road to the salvation of our nation
. The Islamistic movements are our
only chance to realize this revolution. Today the Islamists
seem to be the only ones, who offer resistance against
cultural decadence . It cannot be denied, of course, that
certain Islamitic movements have not yet learned to occupy
themselves with essentials first. If I am fighting for a
re-awakening and renaissance of Islam and for the
establishment of an Islamic state, then it is not for giving
the power to stupid fanatics as some of those in Afghanistan
and Kuwait, to intolerant people who do harm to Islam. Some
of these "Islamists" know more about the seventh century
than about the twentieth.
The goal of Islam is the liberation of human
beings. In Islam freedom is the rule, prohibition the
exception. In the ideal Islamic state that I recommend, the
fundamental principle is that of a liberty warranting the
pluralism of ideas, which is guided by the Koran, the Sunna
and by common sense "Ijtihad". The Islamist movements still
show a great lack of intelligent, enlightened and competent
political cadres, capable of handling a real Islamic concern
as well as the problems of our time. The only movement
endowed with such a sturdy frame to a certain extent seems
to be the
Hizbollah in
Lebanon. On three occasions I have met with its spiritual
leader Mohammed Hussein
Fadlallah , who shows the qualities of
a great leader. In Lebanon there is a relatively democratic
system, with a freedom of expression, which might be
favourable to a sound political development and to the
appearance of capable leaders. But this Lebanese democracy
has not fallen down from the sky, it has been acquired in a
heroic struggle.
There is a risk that some of the "Islamist"
movements are carriers of the same malady they claim to
combat. Incompetent and power-hungry "leaders" - produced by
the current regimes - can easily infiltrate and use the
secretiveness imposed on the movement to establish an
internal dictatorship. To avoid this it is essential to
allow the creation of various Islamist political parties and
safeguard a free debate. The main enemies of our nations are
the corrupt tyrannical regimes installed in our countries.
Only the Islamists are capable of defying them, and by the
experinces won in action the Islamists and their
organizations will mature. The Islamic republic of Iran is a
proof of this, being the only representative and legitimate
state in the Moslem world.
Do you have political relations with other
Moroccans in exile?
Ahmed Rami: I often come
across such people, and I have friendly relations with
Abdelmoumen
Diouri . But my relations with
Moroccans are not limited to exiles. On several occasions I
have met Abderrahmane
Youssoufi (the current prime minister)
whom I estimate for his honesty.
What is your position as to the Sahara
affair?
Ahmed Rami: My position
has always been clear. I share the opinion of the people in
Morocco concerning their rights in the Sahara. In my opinion
even Mauritania and Algeria should unite with my homeland.
If I were resident in Morocco, I would have been fighting
side by side with my comrades for the unity of the Moslem
countries and for the reunion of our provinces in the
Sahara. I remember after leaving Morocco I was invited by
president Boumedienne in Algeria. I was received with great
pomp, and the president offered me a post as "military
leader" of the "Polisario". My answer was this: "If I had
wanted to prostitute myself for a state, I would never have
left Morocco." In the course of events during my stay abroad
I always refused to participate in meetings where there was
a representative of the Polisario mercenaries .
